Jack L Chalker interviewed

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Jack's Back

Had he ever left? Writer Jack L Chalker is one of the few novellists who can switch from fantasy to science fiction with consumate ease.

Read about his life and times here, as fellow author Stephen Hunt gets to know the master of the Well.

Are you currently writing full time now, Jack, or are you still fitting in the odd day-job?

As the web site says, I've written for a living since 1978. No other job.

My wife does have a basic job with a Beltway Bandit (the term for the corporations that do a lot of work for the government) but that's mostly for the health insurance and such. I pay all the bills.

When and why did you begin writing? When did you first consider yourself a writer?

Writers always consider themselves writers. You are or you aren't. I did editing and packaging and nonfiction publishing (the latter as The Mirage Press, Ltd.) since the Sixties, and I ghost wrote a lot of material I'd rather nobody ever discover, but I only began writing "for real" when I came down with a disease that almost killed me and I decided it was "Now or never."

Beat the disease and when I discovered I was making more writing than teaching, I quit teaching.

Now I'm too old to do anything BUT write, and the IRS won't let me stop....

What affect has becoming a published author had upon your lifestyle?

I haven't had to wake up in the early morning and get to work since 1978. On the other hand, all creative types live in a state of perpetual insecurity, too.

How do you see the future of science fiction literature in the 21st century?

The term I always hated in a promotion was "beyond your imagination." Nobody's come close yet. I think science fiction will be well ahead just about at all times, so long as there is a venue to have it published and read. The latter is what I worry about, and that applies to all types of books, not just SF and fantasy.

Do you tend to buy the works of many of today's other SF/F authors?

I think it's essential that you know your field well if you write genre fiction. On the other hand, I read less new stuff in the field now than I did years ago, and generally do it only when I happen on it, there's a ton of buzz about somebody brand new, or people whose judgment I trust and who know me well say I have to read something.

Otherwise, when I DO read SF or fantasy, I generally go back and read old favorites. Now, my other reading is primarily keeping up in the sciences, and I still read a lot of history and biography and political nonfiction.

What's your favourite SF/F movies and TV?

TV is tough. Even though I knew Gene Roddenberry and was there for the original debut of the original unsold pilot, I was never a slavish fan of the series.

I was happier that some decent SF (even if with Thirties plots) was on TV than watching it all the time. I think the best overall work in the field recently was the new OUTER LIMITS, which had a lot of impressive shows. I also thought BABYLON 5 was effective, although it went on at least one season too long.

Do you use an agent?

Yes. Except for my first two books, which I sold myself, all of my work has been through Eleanor Wood of the Spectrum Literary Agency.

We kind of started out together; later on she picked up some Johnny Come latelys like Heinlein, Niven, Pournelle, Williamson, etc.... We have never dealt on any basis other than a handshake. I do have a different agent for Hollywood, but even there it's in concert with Eleanor.

How long did you spend in rejection letter hell before you were first published?

I once got bitten on the leg by another author for saying this during a panel, but while I had a few early stories rejected, I never failed to sell a novel. Del Rey bought the first novel I ever wrote.

Did you always want to be a writer?

You don't necessarily want to be one. You are, and often it's nearly impossible to ignore the calling, such as it is. I always knew I would be a writer; the only question was whether or not I had the patience and self-discipline to work for myself.

Where, when, and how do you write?

I am constantly writing. Sometimes just a few hundred words, sometimes thousands in one day. Even when I'm away and can't reach my keyboard or am between novels I have something I'm assembling in my head.

The creative work and sweat is before I begin actually writing the book; once I start, I already know what it's going to be, so that's the work. I almost always write in the middle of the night, starting around 10 or 11 PM and often going until 6 AM or later depending on how well it's going or how well I'm feeling.

I get up in late afternoon, do some basic household chores and eat some cereal, check mail and news, and when my son comes home from school and my wife from work we have a dinner together.

Then it's family stuff until the boy goes to bed, then a bit more time just me and my wife, then she goes to bed and I go to work. I stop in the morning, make sure they're up and ready to go, and when they leave I go to sleep. It works.

What are you reading now?

Nothing science fictional. Just finished BLINDED BY THE RIGHT and I'm now reading Alvin Josephy's history of the Civil War in the western states. I also read a half dozen magazines a week or more, and depend on SCIENCE NEWS, SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, and NATURE to keep track of what needs more attention, and I read a lot of computer magazines and such.

Did you come up through the writing short-stories route, or did you get published in novel-form first?

Never sold a short story until I'd sold a couple of novels. Even now, I'm about to finish, I think, my 64th novel and during the same period I believe I've done 7 or 8 short stories.

If your Well series was going to be made into a film, who would be your dream producers/actors for the role?

Can't talk about that since it's optioned to the movies and we're working along those lines now (don't hold your breath waiting for the film(s), though--these things usually come to nothing).

The original actors I had in mind are all either too old or dead now for that one, so casting will be something different (I'm open to suggestions). I assume the man who's paying me the option money hopes to be the producer, and if Peter Jackson wanted to direct MIDNIGHT I'd love it but I don't think he's even heard of it.

Do you ever attend SF-cons, and what has your experience with them been?

I began as an SF fan when I was 13, and that means in "organized" fandom. My first Hugo nomination was for a fanzine. I founded the Baltimore Science Fiction Society and its convention, Balticon was my creation, and I've worked on a dozen or more World Science Fiction Conventions.

I literally grew up in the science fiction subculture. I enjoy conventions if there are good people who like good conversation there; I've probably attended a thousand or more by this point, and I've missed only one World SF Convention in the past 35 years.

I don't particularly like all media conventions because I really like being with readers, not show biz and personality fans. Nothing against them, but it's not my cup of tea. Of course, if they really do make a Well picture and they're MY fans, then I might change my mind.

Would you ever consider writing in a different genre, or are you content with SF/F?

Well, I had one reasonably successful World War II novel so it's not foreclosed, I just need the time to write a few other things without the tax man and other creditors hounding me. I've had several other historical novels in outline for years, one Sherlock Holmes western, things like that, I'd still love to write.

What are your hobbies?

Computers and other consumer electronics, travel, national park and monument visiting and support, history, the space program, politics, cultures and religions.

What advice would you give to budding SF writers?

Keep writing, write the whole thing, and be patient. If you've got it, the talent and creativity will show through. You can learn to be a better writer, to have more polish and technique, but you can't learn creativity.

And don't quit your day job unless you suddenly wind up on the New York Times bestseller list. It's a limited and not expanding field these days.

Write because you love to do it and want to do it and if you make money, enjoy it, but have a second occupation for the rest.

Are you from the 'writing tightly against a full outline school' or the 'make it up as you go along' school?

I used to fully outline everything. Now in general I have been doing it long enough I only need a couple of pages of isolated terms that keep me on track.

I also impose some discipline on my longer works by writing the last chapter first. I've been too disappointed by the endings of great ideas by a lot of authors to ever be able to do that to my readers.

Just how tough was your training as a special forces Air Commando?

Probably not as tough as now, and I was a faux Commando anyway. I only did some of the stuff since I was in training to be a special forces PR flack for the Air Force, the kind that convinced you how horribly tough it was.

Still, it wasn't any fun, even back then (we were in a real war at the time). Training was at Howard Air Force Base in the Canal Zone amidst creepy crawlies and real jungle.

I do feel I earned by floppy Air Commando cowboy hat, the only part of my old uniform that still fits. The final exam, as it were, had us having to find and capture young 2nd Lts whose task was to get 50+ miles through the jungle and check in at the base with nothing but their pistol, a knife, and a half a chocolate bar.

If we caught 'em then we passed and they flunked. We caught every one we were sent after. I still can't stand big spiders, though, after that.

How much do you base your characters against people you actually know?

Not one to like getting sued, I have never done a character that was a thinly disguised real one, but all of them are composites of people I've known or met. I'd say every writer (and actor) would say that.

When it comes to your drafts, how much do you tend to re-write?

More than I used to thanks to computers, but I NEVER write a second draft. I write a book through, then I go back and rewrite sections, rework things here and there, tweak this and that, and then print.

The only 100% second draft I ever did was for THE IDENTITY MATRIX because I was still using typewriter then and the revisions grew too extensive. By the time I start typing, I pretty well know what I'm going to write, so it's generally a polish (and cleaning up some dangling items or incongruities).

Mostly, I go with Heinlein: rewrite when the editor demands it. Too many people rewrite to death and never get as good a work as their first or second draft.

What other books do you have planned?

I have at least a dozen books, half SF/fantasy, in various stages of notes and working out right now. After KASPAR'S BOX, which wraps the 3 Kings series, I'm going to be doing a less epic but connected series called CHEMELEON, which will be solid SF, that I can promise since I've already sold it.

Of the work you've penned, What's your favourite novel?

That's like being asked which of your children is your favorite. It's hard. If I had to pick one, though, it would be MIDNIGHT AT THE WELL OF SOULS (the original novel, not the series) which still does its job and holds up amazingly well.

Another personal favorite is THE IDENTITY MATRIX, which is a very complex book with a lot of solid touches and a lot to say. SOUL RIDER is probably the best saga, and the most complicated thing I ever did, but it was very controversial and you either got it or you didn't.

Of all your books, What's been your best-selling work?

MIDNIGHT. Over 4 million copies in print in North America alone, about another half million plus in a dozen other languages, and out of print since it was first published long ago only a few months.

What kind of manuscript changes have been made to your published works?

Very few. I've been quite lucky. Of course, they are so intricately constructed they usually can't tinker much without collapsing the book. I've had a few arguments over small things, like a few sexual terms/slang and that sort of thing, but overall my books have been left alone.

Of the feedback you have heard people come back on about your novels, what's your favorites?

Nothing specific. If they like my work and understand it, I'm overjoyed. The only ones that give me trouble (applies to reviews, too) is when they like my work and DON'T understand it.

What volume of research do you do for your books?

I'm always doing research. But if you mean for science fiction, quite a lot. Relating somewhat to the previous question as well, I find that working out on the fringes of science and the New Physics I get equal numbers of letters from folks who think I write fantasy with science fictional overtones and hard science types wanting to argue points of physics with me.

I must point out that most books that folks think of as "hard" science fiction are really not: they're engineer stories. I do quite a bit of research to insure that my science is real science and it works, even if I don't spell it out.

I'm also not unashamed to tap a lot of folks out on the fringes of science to either find ways to let me do what I want to do anyway or check my concepts to make sure I'm not full of it.

Having written in both the SF and fantasy genres, what have you found the differences to be?

In science fiction you can't break the law unless you can scientifically show how you do it. You're constrained. In fantasy, you are allowed to break laws, but the fewer the better, and once you do you must always be consistent with whatever you determine.

You might say that in SF you need physical consistency while in fantasy you need logical consistency.

How long does it take you to write a novel?

It varies quite a bit. First, when do I start the count? When I get the idea? During the weeks and months I work it out in my head and do the homework and get it fixed in my mind? Or when I sit down and start typing? It can take years, and it can take months. There is no set answer. MIDNIGHT was done in one draft in only 63 days, for example. KASPAR'S BOX has taken over a year.

What's your personal experience been with dealing the suits in the book publishing industry? We're thinking of some of the things Piers Anthony mentioned in his recent tome on his life.

Well, they aren't all that bad (and even he says a few nice things about Tom Dougherty), but in today's reality Anthony has it more right than wrong.

In the end, you're working for the same folks who do the TV networks and would rather remake an old movie than take a chance on a new one, and where any sense of good and bad in an artistic sense is lacking.

These days it's run mostly by accountants who run it through the computers. I once had dinner with the buyer for one of the largest book store chains in the country.

During it, he admitted to me quite offhandedly that he hadn't read a book in years, and that last one was on how to do macros in Excel. It was all done by point of sale and focus committees and PR budgets. That's not to say there aren't some good editors who feel for doing the creative best, but only that THEIR bosses who set policy and budgets are really in charge.

And with that bestseller or else mentality collapsing the old wire rack paperback market, we're back to the pre-WW II sales via bookstores to make the money but unlike then these are all CHAIN stories who dictate the commodities they want. It's a tough business these days.

Given your sometimes role as Treasurer, what would you say the Science Fiction Writers of America has to offer authors?

I think SFWA can offer newer authors a great many ins to the business. Beyond that, they are only marginally useful for much of anything these days. Certainly don't get misled by their "model" contracts and the like. But if you need advice, the older ones are there.

They haven't been a power in the business, though, with real clout, since they decided to drop requalification and allow anybody who gets in once to stay forever as a voting member even if they never write another thing again.

Those folks eventually set the policy and become the social club and gossips but have no real stake in the field.

What has your experience been running the Mirage Press & what prompted you to set it up?

I founded Mirage as a business to make money, of course, and it has. We still maintain one ongoing project -- the SF small press bibliography and supplements -- and we still have one major title we do in association with Random House, A GUIDE TO MIDDLE-EARTH, but mostly it's moribund today.

Too much time and work for too little return overall now. Still, if you know what you are doing, the small press today is as large and vibrant as it's ever been, again so long as it's not your sole source of income and you have some knowledge of the business and cash reserves.

Mirage mostly stopped because I lost my partners at about the same time as my writing career hit and I had to choose which one got my time and energy. I'm still proud of the books we did and the folks we discovered, particularly artists.

How much of your working day do you devote to SF/F fiction these days?

I still keep my general schedule, with a few days off here and there. I'm still active in the Baltimore SF Society, for example, although I rarely write during the nights after I get back from meetings. I would say that it can be as little as 3-4 hours a day for 6 or 7 days or as much as 12 hours a day for solid weeks on end depending on how things are going.

What's your experience been with the few e-books you've had published?

They don't sell and they don't make any money. Print on demand seems to be working, though, so that might be where some of the older stuff will go when it can't find a commercial home.

Nobody can really do well with ebooks, though. Few people find it a good form for reading long pieces and that percentage hasn't grown. People in general just don't read for pleasure that way, and the readers don't survive well if dropped or if they slip into the tub.

How have you found the SF publishing scene has changed since you've been writing?

It used to be a lot easier to sell books, to grow your market, and there were still companies owned and controlled by genuinely creative people with a stake in making the field better.

Now we have only a very few publishers, the only couple with any creative interest being small houses piggybacked onto the distributorships of bigger publishers, and little in the way of independent bookstores, independent distributors who put you on those racks, and publishers who want to find the NEXT big thing and not keep repeating the last ones

.It's getting harder to even find the readers now and get the word out to them (the internet isn't a big thing here, since it's not A billboard, it's sixty million billboards).

I'm pessimistic but keep a little germ of hope alive.

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